Several Gun, Pawn Shops Using LeadsOnline Respond to Twin Falls Dispute

Idaho Dispatch contacted several pawn or gun shops that use LeadsOnline to get their feedback about the controversy in Twin Falls between police and two gun shops that refuse to use the program.

It is important to note that these businesses were contacted before Attorney General Raul Labrador’s office responded to the dispute in an email he sent to Sen. Glenneda Zuiderveld (R-Twin Falls). In that response, the AG’s office cited Idaho Code 18-3326A, which prohibits local governments from keeping lists of guns or gun owners.

The LeadsOnline program, primarily used for pawn shops, stores information on secondhand items brought into stores. Based on research by Idaho Dispatch, most of the cities that use LeadsOnline require personal information about the customer and information about the item purchased by the pawn shop.

Idaho Dispatch contacted Red’s Trading Post in Twin Falls, Patriot Pawn and Gun in Star, and Guns n’ Gear in Idaho Falls to ask questions about their stores’ use of LeadsOnline. All three shops were provided with the same initial questions regarding the LeadsOnline program.

Larry Barksdale, a sales manager at Red’s Trading Post, responded to our inquiry. On whether or not the store uses LeadsOnline, Barksdale said,

“Yes, we do. The city of Twin Falls has required the use of leads online for several years.”

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Barksdale also disputed that LeadsOnline was a registration program for firearms. He told Idaho Dispatch when asked if he felt the program was a “de facto gun registration program,” as alleged by several other gun shops in the Twin Falls area,

“I don’t believe it is. The only items that are entered into leads are those used items that are sold to us. It’s for all used merchandise, not just firearms. I don’t believe a list of items you no longer own could be construed as a registration.”

On whether Barksdale felt that the use of LeadsOnline being required by law enforcement violated Idaho’s firearm preemption law, Barksdale said,

“It doesn’t appear to be. The use of leads doesn’t regulate or prevent conducting business. I’m not an attorney so my understanding may not be correct. I would recommend consulting an attorney for further clarification.”

Idaho Dispatch also asked Barksdale if they informed customers that their information was being entered into LeadsOnline.

Barksdale responded by saying,

“Customers already know that their information is collected when selling anything used. Especially a firearm.”

Barksdale did say that they would not continue to use LeadsOnline if it was not required. Specifically, Barksdale said,

“If it wasn’t required, we would not continue to use it.”

Barksdale said without LeadsOnline, he is concerned about stolen property not getting back to their owners.

Here is what Barksdale had to say about the potential impact of not having LeadsOnline:

“We, as a business have the most to lose when we take in merchandise that was stolen. Very rarely do we receive any compensation for the money we’ve given out for that item. With that in mind, I feel that the use of Leads provides the best opportunity to recover stolen property. Without utilizing Leads I’d imagine that very little stolen property would ever be recovered.”

Finally, Idaho Dispatch followed up with Barksdale to get his response to the AG’s opinion.

Barksdale told Idaho Dispatch that he would wait to see what happened between the AG’s office and the city attorney.

According to Alex Joye, owner of Patriot Pawn and Gun in Star, LeadsOnline has “revolutionized” the pawn industry. Idaho Dispatch spoke with Joye about the program and the controversy in Twin Falls.

Joye told Idaho Dispatch that he does use LeadsOnline. He says his use of the program is voluntary but is highly encouraged by law enforcement.

Idaho Dispatch asked Joye if he felt the program acted as a “de facto gun registry,” as claimed by the Twin Falls gun shops. Here is Joye’s response in full:

“No, I do not consider LeadsOnline to be defacto gun registration for pawn shops. I am not aware of any stores that are gun-shops-only being encouraged to be on LeadsOnline and I’m not aware of any gun-stores-only that are participating in our area. To my knowledge it is only stores that do pawn loans and deal in a lot of second-hand stuff. Before we were on LeadsOnline we were strongly encouraged to do so by a property crimes detective from another county and city who was working a case at the time who expressed skepticism about why we were not yet on LeadsOnline. I recall at the time that I did not know what LeadsOnline was and I did not know how it worked. The detective told me more about it and my recollection is that he said we were the only pawn shop not on LeadsOnline in our area at the time. After those conversations, I felt as if our store was doing something wrong by not being on LeadsOnline. We run a clean shop and I wanted law enforcement to be assured of that. I asked questions and expressed concerns to local law enforcement who assured me that LeadsOnline is used by local and area property crimes detectives in Idaho to combat the scourge of stolen property.

Previously to LeadsOnline, pawn shops were often the target of thieves to pawn off their stolen property to get cash. Since a broad adoption of LeadsOnline by area pawn shops, it has cleaned up the pawn industry significantly. I believe LeadsOnline being used by area pawn shops serves the public interest and helps protect area citizens from property crimes. In the 12 years we’ve been on LeadsOnline, I have only observed it being used in a very narrow property crimes context. I have not seen it used to violate any citizen’s gun rights. In fact, the property crimes detectives I have worked with over the years have expressed their belief in gun rights for law abiding citizens and the detectives themselves were gun guys….hunters, shooters, Idaho dudes. I was assured by local law enforcement that LeadsOnline is not being used by them as a defacto gun registry.”

Idaho Dispatch asked Joye if he felt LeadsOnline violated Idaho’s firearm preemption statute. Idaho Code 18-3302(J) prohibits cities from regulating firearms’ sale, transfer, or possession. It was one of the main statutes that gun groups said LeadsOnline was violating by police tracking the data from secondhand firearm sales.

Joye responded to Idaho Dispatch saying,

“That question is above my pay grade. I am not qualified to interpret legalese in a manner that has any real authority. I do understand the concern and I believe the questions are valid. Hopefully an authority in Idaho can look at this issue and make a proper determination of where the lines are. I am currently under the impression that the State of Idaho does not view LeadsOnline as a defacto gun registry or it would not be in broad use in our State among pawn shops and local law enforcement.”

Joye also responded to Idaho Dispatch’s question about whether he would use the program if it were not required.

Here was Joye’s response:

“My take is this: There may be a way to satisfy the competing core concerns with regards to the LeadsOnline issue: Serving the public good in cleaning up the pawn industry and protecting citizens and holding thieves accountable for property crimes vs. being sensitive to gun owner’s information being on a database. Maybe with regards to guns, the State of Idaho and law enforcement would be OK with listing the make, model, caliber and description of the gun without a serial number and without the individual’s information.

Then if they are working a property crime case they can search by make, model, caliber and then track down the hits they get from a larger pool from LeadsOnline. FFL’s are required by the Feds to keep the transaction information in their A&D Books which could be used to identify the individual if it became a legitimate law enforcement issue. It would be more work, but it might address the concerns of some who consider any identifiable information as a defacto gun registry. However, the State of Idaho and law enforcement may disagree with that and may want it to stay as-is for legitimate reasons. If the State of Idaho eventually says don’t use it for guns, I would not use it for guns. If the State of Idaho says keep using it for non-guns, I would use it for non-guns.”

Our last question for Joye before the AG’s opinion was released was whether he informed customers about their information going into LeadsOnline.

Joye responded by saying,

“I inform customers. The customer then reviews and signs paperwork that is clearly titled LeadsOnline. Most ask for a copy of the paperwork for their records so they can show the Feds they turned the gun in to an FFL if they get a knock on the door for a gun trace.”

Joye weighed in on the issue overall by stating,

“My personal opinion is that participation with LeadsOnline should be voluntary and not compelled. I believe it should be focused on pawn shops and second-hand stores that deal a lot in second-hand stuff because those are the main targets for thieves. I respect the concerns expressed by some FFL Gun Shops who do not do pawn loans and who don’t deal in second-hand stuff at a high level…being concerned about inputting customer gun information on a local government accessed database.

I wrestled with the same concerns, but came to a decision that I trusted local law enforcement to use the info properly and in a narrow context of property crimes and to-date I have not observed anything anywhere near an abuse of that trust. It’s the opposite, I have observed local law enforcement use the database to hold criminals accountable and to return property to local victims. I’ve also observed LeadsOnline significantly reduce our store’s interactions with law enforcement over property crimes because it works. I don’t want to jinx us, but it has been many years now since our store was victimized and caught up in a property crime, in large part because of our participation with LeadsOnline.”

Once Labrador’s opinion was released, Idaho Dispatch followed up with Joye to get his reaction. Joye responded to the AG’s opinion by telling Idaho Dispatch he would contact his local law enforcement officers about the opinion and its implications for his store.

Joye added,

“We respect the AG’s office and their authority. We acknowledge the response by the AG’s Office to Senator Zuiderveld. In light of Idaho Dispatch’s reporting on this issue we reached out to our Chief Law Enforcement Officer for our FFL and we gave him the meat of the story and asked for guidance. He said he would look into the issue and get back to us. If the powers-that-be say the “Second Amendment Financial Privacy Act” now means no more entry of firearms into LeadsOnline, then no problem, we will cease doing so. While we believe LeadsOnline is a valuable tool of Law Enforcement to hold thieves and criminals accountable, we respect the Laws of Idaho and the State’s interpretation and application of those laws.”

Joye also posted a longer response to the AG’s opinion on his Facebook page, “Idaho Conservative Coalition,” which can be viewed here.

Idaho Dispatch had spoken in person with a manager at Guns N Gear in Idaho Falls. We then emailed that individual and sent them the same questions we sent to Red’s Trading Post and Patriot Pawn and Gun, but we did not receive a response to our inquiry.

In addition to the gun and pawn shops we contacted, Idaho Dispatch also contacted the Idaho Chiefs of Police Association to ask for their response to the AG’s opinion. We have not received a response at the time of this writing.

Idaho Falls Police Department provided a list of gun and pawn shops that use LeadsOnline, and Guns N Gear was among the list of gun shops that do use the program.

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Tags: Attorney General, Guns N Gear, Idaho Falls, LeadsOnline, Patriot Pawn and Gun, Raul Labrador, Reds Trading Post, Star, Twin Falls

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